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elena 11/11/2009 5:01:00 AM
The abused against humans or animals should not be tolerated in any country,in any society;of course that this country has a lot of issues but is in this country that WE can discuss all this issues,because WE have that liberty thanks God.In this country it can be done because our laws.WE have the opportunity to make it better and WE can fight for humans and animals.Were the spaniards who bring this kind of dogs to kill the natives of the conquest territories,they were used as weapon to terrorized the people.The bad seed is in all races;but there are good people in all races too,if this fights were found in poor neighbors is not because the "minorities" are bad is because "good" people go to do bad things to places that are far from home,were you don't see much police
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elena 11/11/2009 5:01:00 AM
The abused against humans or animals should not be tolerated in any country,in any society;of course that this country has a lot of issues but is in this country that WE can discuss all this issues,because WE have that liberty thanks God.In this country it can be done because our laws.WE have the opportunity to make it better and WE can fight for humans and animals.Were the spaniards who bring this kind of dogs to kill the natives of the conquest territories,they were used as weapon to terrorized the people.The bad seed is in all races;but there are good people in all races too,if this fights were found in poor neighbors is not because the "minorities" are bad is because "good" people go to do bad things to places that are far from home,were you don't see much police
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Gavin 10/27/2009 9:41:00 PM
And yes, those who are cruel to animals WILL have a special spot in Hell reserved for them by any just Supreme Being. You can bet on that! And that's exactly what they deserve!
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Gavin 10/27/2009 9:39:00 PM
And yes, the same harsh punishment should also be bestowed upon those who commit violence against INNOCENT humans. The hallmark of a civilized society is one that stands up for the innocent and most helpless-both human and animal. Apologists who say "it's only an animal...what about all the starving babies, etc...." are trotting out an invalid argument. Sadistic cruelty towards the innocent must NEVER be tolerated, and the law, in order to properly protect the decent citizens of society, should make a point out of harshly punishing those who get pleasure out of torturing innocent creatures. And for those who say people want to bestow human characteristics on dogs...that would be an insult to dogs, since humans are the only creatures that get pleasure from torturing and killing something just for amusement.
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Gavin 10/27/2009 9:23:00 PM
The punishment for dog fighting (and any form of animal cruelty) should be death. It should be a capital crime. People who participate in such activities are worthless and do not deserve any Constitutional protections. Those bastards should be electrocuted just like they did those poor dogs. I hope the book is thrown at these criminals and they rot in prison (though as I said before, if it was up to me they'd get the chair).
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CaneBoss 10/27/2009 10:26:00 AM
Officers with little of importance to do, and plenty of time to make things seem as though if they are important. Fact is, is that many people are unconscious racists. They have been processed by media,and negative heresay of Blacks and they assume it to be true and act it out in their behavior, but will say in a New York minute that they dont have a racist bnone in their body. See if they wont get afraid and think a Black guy is going to rob them on a dark street, See if they dont think a black defendant must be guilty if he is accused. Tell them to close their eyes and imagine a drug addict breaking into their house and stealing their possesions and ask them how he looks. Its their own fault they are racists.
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T. 10/27/2009 6:32:00 AM
Again..... the dogs were all put down with out these folks being found guilty of dog fighting.
No one on here sees anything wrong with that?
15 dogs were put down that quickly, they weren't adopted out, or held until the trial was over. They wasted no time killing these animals.
That's the real crime here. So to all you tree hugging, animals should have their own world idiots. Can you please find the crime in that???!!!!
Because that to me is some messed up crap!
HSUS, BSL and yes even our local animal control offices are the enemy to all pet owners.
If you think this is solely about the pitbull guess again.
Watch for unrealistic and bull-crap animal laws being passed in your city/county.
Its all a big business and you and I as tax payers are the suckers. Time to take a stand and look at who the real criminals are.... the real murders. If you guys think that these people give a shit about your dogs your totally mistaken. These so called animal control officers, especially the ones in Miami-Dade county have put down countless dogs they claimed to have been pitbulls. I personally know of American Bulldogs and Boxers that have been euthanized because the owner had no pedigree on the dog to prove that the breed was what the owners were saying. I used to believe they were just dumb ( well I still think that) and just didn't know the difference but trust me they do. The more so called pitbulls they take off the streets the bigger bonus these so called animal control officers get, not to mention all the money the county makes off of all the unconstitutional fines they smack people with.
I know for a fact that FLORIDA POWER and LIGHT meter readers were being payed an additional 50 bucks for every house they turned in with a pitbull or so call pitbull type dog. Florida Power and Light folks.....this is a joke and a freaking gestapo.
There is no such thing as a "so called dangerous dog breed".
Dont believe me ask a vet...
The American Canine Foundation states:
"(From ACF) There is no scientific proof that Pit Bull�s, or any other breed of dog is dangerous. The Foundation's collective experience and research has found the American Pit Bull Terrier is a "terrier." All terriers have animal prey
drive, but this does not make them dangerous or vicious. The Pit Bull type dog comes from Europe and evolved from some Mastiff based breed such as with some Bulldog blood either in a pure form or to a variation of any of the many terrier and hound groups beginning with the now extinct Black and Tans Terriers and Olde English White Terriers. English and Irish immigrants imported the dogs. Unfortunately, it was discovered in the late 1800's that if trained, the dogs could be used in the inhumane sport of dog fighting. Due to federal laws passed in the 1970's prohibiting dog
fighting fewer dogs are now trained for the illegal sport."
....Do your research and know your rights because they are being violated as we speak.
I love these dogs and all animals for that matter and hate the thought of any animal being tortured or abused but the city, county and country are taking this to a whole other level and making normal law abiding citizen have to pay fines and or even jail time for owning these dogs.
BSL AND HSUS again..... they're the enemy.
T.
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Snoopy 10/27/2009 1:17:00 AM
davidMC:
No one on this board wrote that the United States is perfect. How did you go from comments about dog fighting to a full on run down with everything that is wrong with this country? This country has issues, no doubt about it, but what does that have to do with enforcing laws against dog fighting? You rabid eagerness to America bash has got you rambling.
You are a very brave warrior for Civil Rights, fighting for justice from your computer! Did you grow up in an intensely multiracial society (hanging out with and attending school with people from different races, not just seeing them on the Tube or Tellly)? If not, perhaps you are too naive to preach on the subject? Within our society sometimes cultures clash, as in this instance. Slavery is a black mark in our history but we are almost at the point of achieving total equality in this country. We are on the right track with the election of our first black President. However, few countries have an unblemished history. Arabs were the first to trade slaves out of Africa followed by the Portuguese. Your beloved Spain had slaves in its colonies and its brutality to Indians makes the English settlers of the United States look like Mary Poppins. France had slaves in her colonies, as did Sweden. Japanese systemically sexually abused Chinese women amid other atrocities in WWII justified in their minds because they considered them racially inferior. Do you want me to continue? I had an Australian friend who ran her mouth about America's history in this area until I said, "And the Aboriginals have been treated so wonderfully in your country. We really need to learn from you." She never uttered another hypocritical word on the subject.
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seneca 10/26/2009 9:26:00 PM
Actually, **you** chose to focus on race in your first reply to my original post. If you re-read my first post you will see that race is briefly mentioned but isn't the entire focus of my post- the post is three paragraphs long and only the last paragraph mentions race. And this was done because IT WAS MADE AN ISSUE BY THE ACCUSED THEMSELVES. My second reply didn't even mention race. If you re-read your posts you will see that you consistently brought up race Your second post brings up race and your third post focuses on race. Just exactly who is obsessed with race? Don't cast aspersions and then not expect a reply!
In your first post you said babies are starving in this country. When I refuted that as nonsense you backed down and wrote something about different measures of poverty in different countries. You said Americans weren't measuring up to Ghandi's dictum in your first post- well, neither do the vast majority of other countries on the planet. You make snide remarks about the U.S. educational ranking. You bring up the U.S.'s prison population and Guantanamo and health care... I noticed you spell "neighbor" as "neighbour" which is the British spelling so you aren't originally from this country. I must ask, if you think this country is so miserable why are you even here? It seems you posesss a lot of animosity toward your adopted home. How miserable to live somewhere that you feel falls so short.
Instead of having a stimulating discussion you resorted to personal attacks and accusations. I believe that says a lot about YOU.
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davidMc 10/26/2009 8:46:00 PM
Seneca. You doth betray your adopted name. You started into race from the very beginning, not when I accused you of �race-baiting�. I simply followed your thread. You also failed to recognize the possibility, probability and fact of whites who being into dog-fighting. You continued making this into a race issue when you failed to even recognize the possibility that the accused men are innocent� so much for the Constitution.
Your focus turned almost entirely unto a race issue in the post dated Oct 23, 20:51, even though I had already conceded that dog-fighting was a problem mainly in black communities, and even when I opened up other avenues of discussion for us. You actually couldn�t help yourself, could you? But as I said, you keep revealing yourself.
Here�s an interesting thing (not race). When speaking somewhat derogatorily about Spain, you say, ��most first world countries have evolved and become educated and more decent regarding treatment of our fellow creatures�. Because Spain is higher on the UN education index, then it could perhaps stands to the United States could be considered backwards. As I said, perhaps. But you chose to confirm this, �It is no secret that the U.S. educational system is a mess due to a myriad of reasons. We face a lot more challenges in this huge and diverse country educating the masses so I'm not going to attempt to argue that the U.S. is going to measure up favorably�. Now, I can bet you would retort that the least educated amongst us are the blacks, the minorities while white are better educated so less barbaric.
Ok, so explain the principles of the other examples I gave you, deer hunting with machine guns, bird hunting with shotguns etc. Or explain this. The greyhound racing industry. Primarily white owned and bred. But perhaps you don�t know how these dogs are treated when they fall out of use, when they fail to win, when they get injured, when they are not fast enough. Who are the ones abandoning them, killing them, hurting them� minorities?
Do you know the inside story of dog-breeding those genetically modified dogs? What % of dogs do you think are destroyed before a perfect one is found? Do you think that dogs should be GMed in the first place? Whom do you think are the owners and breeders of this industry? Minorities?
Lets take this further, by re-quoting you on Ghandi, ��one can judge the civility of a nation by how its animals are treated�. Ok. How about judging the civility of nation by how it treats its fellow man or citizens? Want to check the statistics on homelessness or do you just want to go to a park near you. Since September last year, the #s of homeless have dramatically increased. On statistic claims that every year, 3.5m Americans are homeless.
Health care. Over 55m people are without health care yet we have fools fighting against health care reform, especially when the same first world countries you refer to, and others not so first world countries provide better national health care for its citizens.
The United States has 5% of the world�s population but 25% of the world�s prison population, even more than China. Think about that for a bit.
And not last or least, Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. Do I need to elucidate? And who are the leaders of this country during all this? Minorities? And who give the government the stamp of approval� minorities?
Here is my final and main point. Dog-fighting should not be a race issue and brought to that level. You don�t like it, I don�t like it and we both can join together in fighting it. But I can�t join with you if you find every little excise to stereotypically attack any others. Its impossible to join you if you don�t recognize that this behaviour crosses all boundaries including racial ones. Fight against things you find repulsive. as I do. But bringing race, religion, sexual orientation or any other of your petty prejudices into the ring only divides not unite.
But let me leave you with this, Mr Seneca. The most important test is how we treat each other. I�m sick of too many people using every little story as an excuse for race-bashing. Face up to yourself (all posters), take a good look in the mirror. I don�t expect to change your mind or whom you are so comfortable being.
Our exchange was interesting but for me, its time to move on. Reply if you wish, but I�m outa this site and won�t be back. Peace out.
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a 10/26/2009 8:38:00 PM
I'm sorry but for you people that don't see animals, our pets and companions as important are idiots. My dogs are a part of my family and I would do anything for them, to keep them safe and healthy as I do my children. They rely on me and I would never let them down. They give me unconditional love and devotion that is hard to find from any person. After dealing with the horribly selfish, rude, inconsiderate people in our society on a daily basis, there is nothing like coming home to a dog that brings you a sense of peace. These bastards did it. Please!! Even if they didn't it is just animal cruelty to leave a dog chained to a tree with no shelter from this incredible heat, while your sitting in your air conditioned home. You selfish jerk! Then you breed them. What a great idea. There aren't enough unwanted dogs out there. On top of it they are aggressive from not being socialized, or from fighting, oh i forgot they are innocent. What would happen if these dogs escaped and ended up attacking some kid walking down the street. But, these men are completely innocent and upstanding members of society. These dogs are aggressive because of the owners. I wish I was a juror on the case. I have great respect for these animal officers. You are doing a great job. These poor animals need people to help them. If you can treat any living, breathing, feeling person or animal with such cruelty you are a waste to society. Like children, animals are innocent. They look to you for love and acceptance. What kind of person would shatter that.
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seneca 10/26/2009 1:18:00 AM
sorry, meant to write: popular in Denmark or Sweden?
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seneca 10/26/2009 1:15:00 AM
It was appropriate to address race as you accused me of racebaiting- so complaining about an overemphasis of race in my rebuttal isn't a fair argument. And as for your comments about Spain ranking 17th and comparing it to the U.S., if you re-read what I wrote you'll notice I specifically compared Spain to other western European countries, not the U.S. It is no secret that the U.S. educational system is a mess due to a myriad of reasons. We face a lot more challenges in this huge and diverse country educating the masses so I'm not going to attempt to argue that the U.S. is going to measure up favorably. But you actually kind of made my point for me when bringing up Italy. Can you picture dog fighting being popular in Denmark or Scandinavia? **Generally** prosperous well-educated populaces don't find animal torture diverting entertainment. And yes, I am aware of the the controversy surrounding foxhunting in England. I actually half-expected that to be brought up when I was writing about bear-baiting. All countries could do a better job at alleviating animal suffering: foie gras production in France (or horsemeat), Japan's disgusting record of killing whales under the guise of scientific studies and brutal killing of dolphins, puppy mills and factory farms here in the U.S etc. Tragically there is just too much to even list but the topic was torture of animals for "sport" and that is what I tried to confine myself to in my postings.
And to respond to the argument by another poster equating the fact that people are making an effort to halt animal torture with lack of care about human suffering- That is a really old and tired argument. It really isn't a valid argument against animal welfare. First of all, the money donated to animal charities is only a fraction of that donated to charities aimed at helping humans. If only for the reason that people are selfish and only seem to esteem help that goes toward their benefit. Ever notice how celebrities who take on children's charities are fawned over but no one seems to care much that Leonardo Di Caprio has vigorously advocated on behalf of environmental issues for more than a decade? And to be brutally frank, humans can help themselves. Animals cannot. For example, humans can limit the number of children they have to what they can feed and care for. If they choose not to be responsible does that entitle them to special help? Since we don't follow Darwinism to its brutal conclusion in these cases (Darwin was brought up by someone else in an earlier post) we help these unfortunates through food stamp programs, etc. But to say we shouldn't put resources toward animal care because there are needy humans just doesn't make sense. The paltry amounts given to animal charities and enforcement of animal cruely laws, etc. are just a drop in the bucket to the massive amounts donated to help fellow humans. To sum it up- it is a lame argument.
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T. 10/25/2009 6:29:00 PM
What's wrong with everyone on here? What ever happened to being inoccent until proven guilty???
These guys all had equipment to work a bulldog. Any one here who has ever own not only a pitbull but any bull breed knows that a springpole, treadmill, etc are all things a bulldog enjoys to work. There's nothing more fun to a bulldog than working and impressing his owner. Folks these are dogs that have been bred for centuries not years but centuries for the sport of animal baiting. Can we breed this out of them ? Sure we can soften them up by breeding away certain traits but it will ultimately and end of the day still be a bulldog! These are the gladiators of the canine world and why would anyone want to exterminate or change that? Yes it is illegal to fight dogs and all those found guilty of it should be held responsible for breaking the law. But again, you can not call someone a dog fighter for having toys that a bulldog absolutely loves to play with! A bulldog (pitbull) is a working dog an intense working and enjoys hanging and shaking from a rope, rag, or hide strip tied to a tree or springpole. They also love to be pushed to their limits on stamina and wind.... So treadmills are excellent for that. Also if you show or even just enjoy having a dog that looks like a beautiful in shape specimen, these are some of the stuff used to make them look great.
In my opinion these guys are still innocent ...... They haven't been proven guilty and all 15 dogs were put down by the City of Boyton beach. Who is the real criminal here??? Boyton beach animal control and it's officers that's who. The question should be " Why were the dogs put down all 15 of them?" The men haven't been found guilty of any crimes yet.
The city of Boyton beach should be ashamed of themselves. Also I recommend that everyone does a little more homework and research before pointing the finger at some of these folks. Yes these are animals and if being abused by humans the humans should be held responsible but these are human lives folks. Wrongly convicted and these folks and their families will endure countless time of sufferring and pain.
I strongly urge the Boyton beach animal control office and it's officers to worry less about making unrealistic busts to make their numbers for the year and worry more about educating the public with truth and making their communty feel safe about owning these wonderful dogs. This is called phsycological terrorism.... They're more interested in scaring the public so that when a pitbull owner is caught in his backyard playing with his dog 911 is dialed. This is how the city makes they're money folks. They rather scare you than educate you....... What a shame.
T.
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Nick 10/25/2009 8:45:00 AM
I just have to comment quickly about the pious and pseudo-intellectual ranting about "truth". If you ask a nutcase PETA or ALF member, then the "truth" is that a boy is equivalent to a rat. A human life is worth less than a bug. And it�s ok to kill 200 tiny animals to harvest a pound of coffee beans, but it is not ok to kill one 50 lb pig to feed many. The �truth� to a PETA moron, is that �All the cows should be freed from their fields and allowed to roam the streets�. Even a complete idiot knows this is just plain stupid to the point of being laughable. But this is what they spout. Also, they break into farms and �free� thousands of animals into the wild, condemning them to a slow agonizing death over several months as they dehydrate and starve and freeze to death. Strangely enough PETA also kills thousands of dogs and cats in the name of their "truth". This is I guess the �truth� that is so easily quantified by the other commenter. Their �truth� is that it is right to burn down entire condo-projects and risk lives and destroy property, so they can spout more of their so-called unassailable �truth�. Gimme a break.
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Nick 10/25/2009 8:28:00 AM
Well, I like the interesting comments, but I think the main thrust of what I was saying is a bit overshadowed.
1: Vick was wrong, and he was charged. it isn't really important national news, and it isn't worthy of the many months of hysterical coverage it got. The only reason it did is because it makes great media fodder just like "zoo stories" and "cute bunny" stories. People buy that crap. I never said Vick was right, I just think that if he shot someone in a bar fight, it would have likely barely made one or two news mentions, because animals are exalted above people in this messed up hypocritical society. People buy filet steaks for their dogs and $9.95 a can dog food because it has a fancy label and they and society are obsessed with elevating animals above people. People pay tens of thousands of dollars for doggie health care and surgical operations, but they probably wouldn't donate five bucks to the food bank.
2: The news media is totally corrupt and spews pablum and mush and garbage to an audience of willing people, there to suck it up and oooh and ahhh and spend months talking about "those poor dogs". Again, do these people help the homeless? Show them a homeless dog and they will whip out their wallets though! Hurting hungry people? Abused suffering children? BAHH! Screw em!
3: Animal rights activists like PETA and ALF are very close to that proverbial 'lowest scum on the earth". There are not quite there at the bottom with child rapists and murderers, but a lot of them would happily kill people to show how much animals and their "animal rights" mean to them. They will bomb, burn, and destroy, and they consider a roaster chicken more valuable than a baby boy or girl.
That's all I am saying. But the other comments are great, and even if I dont agree, I say, keep em coming, thats what freedom is all about. God bless!
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CU 10/25/2009 7:17:00 AM
People are vile and disgusting. I agree with EVERYTHING Seneca said. Who says we're the most important ones on earth? Is it because we have more sophisticated emotions or because we can think at a higher level? If thinking at a higher level includes coming up with ways to torture and kill animals, then we are not far from being savages.
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davidMc 10/25/2009 2:29:00 AM
Mr Seneca. Its a pity that you spent yourself talking about something that I had already conceded. Yes, this currently is more of a problem in black communities etc etc. I admit. I concede that point. But again you identify yourself too easily.
The men have not been found guilty and so everything you try to lay on them or their neighbours is irrelevant. If and I only say if, they are found not guilty, then the community has a right to defend them. Actually the community has a right to defend them before trial. I dont know, it could be something about �innocent until proven guilty�. I know I heard that somewhere... care to guess?
Do I think white neighbours would... etc etc? Of course. I know white neighbours who make excuses for neighbours who are arrested of child molesting. And again, that is their right.
Ok, better get a bandaid, this is going to hurt. Seneca, you shouldnt be so selective in your defense. Elizabethan England indeed. How about today�s England where the royals and the rich are still foxhunting? And how about hunting deer with M16s right here in America, or shooting birds with shotguns, beating baby seals with clubs. Take your pick.
As to your reference to Spain... bad idea. In the UN Education index, Spain is ranked at 17, two spots above the United States. You can however console yourself that Italy is ranked two beneath the US at 22. Why pick on Italy? Italy recently (2004) passed an animal cruelty law to crush the phenomenon of ...wait for it... dog fighting. You were saying about backward, prosperity and lower quality education?
And feel free to talk about race anytime... as long as it is appropriate to the conversation. I dont think your overemphasis on race in this conversation is warranted, especially when I conceded the point.
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seneca 10/24/2009 6:51:00 AM
Don't you remember how when the Michael Vick story broke several people from the black community tried to explain away his behavior by claiming it was part of their culture? Whoopi Goldberg was one who was very vocal about it- making excuses for Vick's behavior very emphatically. So it isn't just my opinion that this is a predominately black problem. Another piece of evidence that it is more accepted within the black community is the excuses and arguments made on behalf of the abusers. Don't you think that is also revealing? Do you think white neighbors would be so eager to explain away potential torture of animals by saying that the men are popular in the neighborhood and good family men and churchgoers, etc.? And who brought up race in the first place? Is it okay for blacks to talk about race but not whites? Mmmm- racebaiting, indeed. When the first dogfighting ring conducted by whites is exposed I'll be more than eager to push for agressive prosecution and harsh sentences. It is unacceptable no matter who is doing it. You are absolutely correct that at one time barbaric sports were an accepted form of entertainment in Europe and in the U.S. In Elizabethan England bear baiting was popular, for instance. However society has progressed. Now only in backward places like Pakistan is that sport acceptable. And to pick on occidentals so as not to be accused of "racebaiting"- Spain (revealing point- poorer and with lower quality education relative to other western European countries) is considered backward by quite a few people due to the stubborn popularity of bullfighting- torture masquerading as "part of their culture"- and other barbaric rural festivals that involve various modes of animal torture that take place throughout the country. Point is, most first world prosperouscountries have evolved and become educated and more decent regarding treatment of our fellow creatures. Is it perfect? No. But at least an effort is made.
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davidMc 10/24/2009 6:06:00 AM
Hmm. You know what Seneca? I�m going to extend some benefit of the doubt to you. Though it would have been better if you had been clearer in the first place. I would have liked you to have even hinted about seal cubs clubbed for their pelts, or deer hunted with shotguns and M16s. I would have liked you to be clearer on pigs and chickens farmed for their meat, or birds hunted with shotguns. It certainly would have helped me to understand you more.
I would certainly like to also extend the same courtesy in your quoting Ghandi. But there would be something out of context. After the quote, you said �In other words, animals cannot look after themselves so how a completely helpless creature is treated says a lot about how civilized a country is�. Completely helpless creature doesn�t suggest to me that you extend Ghandi dictum very far. And the truth is, many animals, domesticated or not can take care of themselves� excluding dogs and cats who are domesticated beyond a level of helping themselves.
Most animals, left on their own will adapt to the environmental circumstances. In Darwinian terms, some will die and some wont. It will be survival of the fittest. The same goes for man. I wouldn�t be too quick to state that animals cannot look after themselves in such stereotypical terms. And there is an additional point here too. Animals that are over-domesticated are in fact endangered by their care-givers. That perhaps should be regarded as a form of cruelty. The dogs those men bred, certainly would have a better survival chance in a sudden change of circumstance than dear little poodle.
By the way, perhaps we should also introduce the subject of genetic tampering to produce those cute little crossbreeds. But that is something I�m not sure you want to touch.
And true, in most situations, babies are taken for in some shape or form even if the state has to step in. But many, slip thru the cracks and if its even a couple hundred in this nation of over 300mil, that makes my point.
That thought also governs needy Americans. Poverty to some extent is a question of perspective. And while the poverty line is drawn in America is different from the same line in Africa, many Americans fall well below America�s poverty line. Granted we aren�t likely to see the same kind of pictures that come out of Africa, but they exist.
And by the way, logic is logic, truth is truth. There is no such thing as bleeding heart nonsensical logic or conservative truth. Bad reasoning is not logic, lies are not truth.
And as to dog fighting not in white neighborhoods� it�s a pity you didn�t address the issue instead to trying to be so dismissive. In fact this dismissal tells more about you than you think.
But tell me this. Dog fighting was at one time a high society form of sport and entertainment. This remained so for hundreds of years. Is it so inconceivable that remnants of it hasn�t survive? Two states, Kentucky and Indiana, have fairly lenient penalties for dogfighting. Do you really think you can speak for the thousands of rural poor white communities? I don�t think so, so please don�t bury your head in the sand, or use this as your particular form of race-baiting.
I can easily agree that right now the epidemic of dog fighting takes place in �black� communities, poorer as well an upper class. I have no doubt that rich black men also participate as well. You will find all kinds. And I have no doubt that whites, and white communities across the same spectrum are not entirely unblemished, though likely in smaller quantities.
But as I said, your casual dismissal says a lot about you. The same since you seem to be implying that these men are guilty, when a jury has yet to convict them. Hmmm. I wonder.
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Michelle 10/24/2009 12:40:00 AM
Fry their MF asses and then let their own pitbulls at em....
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seneca 10/23/2009 11:17:00 PM
Actually, davidmc, I didn't mean to imply that only dogs should be treated humanely but since the article is about dogs that is what I focused on. Nor did I mean to imply that only animals kept as pets had a right to a life free from torture. There is no need to go from one extreme to another, for instance, I am not a vegetarian but I only eat meat that is "cruelty free" whether it be certified organic, etc. It is so amusing to read comments accusing those of being disgusted by this type of barbarism of being fanatics- typical deflection tactic by those too stupid to thing of anything more original in their feeble attempts at justification. And the quote by Ghandi was exactly as I interpreted it. Obviously it wasn't exclusively directed at dogs when Mahatma Ghandi uttered those words! Please don't deliberately misinterpret me. And babies starving in the United States? Are their mothers drug addicts? Because there are agencies aplenty to feed needy Americans... one has only to possess the presence of mind enough to seek this help. So if anyone is going hungry it is due to impaired faculties! Enough with the bleeding heart nonsensical logic! And dog fighting in white neighborhoods? Nice try... Lastly, I wasn't the one who brought up race. Read the article, that is the defense tactic bandied about by defendants and their lawyers!!!
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davidMc 10/23/2009 10:37:00 PM
Seneca. You are so sophisticated� not. Actually your argument isn�t better than Nick whoever he is. He never stated what you presume and I don�t either. You just chose to make a poor misinterpretation. The valid point is that many people like you would rather howl about animal mistreatment than about human mistreatment and exploitation. It�s a question of priorities. By the way, babies starve in America also.
Your argument is shallow. Horses are both widely domesticated and eaten in the USA. Bam! That rams a hole in your argument.
Yes, some dogs have been bred to be completely dependent on humans, but some dogs have been bred for food and others for fighting. Just like bulls and roosters. If your logic was to hold up, then it would be morally correct for some to breed dogs for fighting. And you might not want to know it, but dogfighting takes place in middle and upper class enclaves too. And since you are the one to bring up race, it also takes place in majority aka white communities.
Don�t misinterpret Ghandi. He was talking about all animals, not just dogs. You eat meat, then you would fail Ghandi�s dictum.
Want to know what shows civility? How man treats ALL his fellow men. That's the start point. And I guess that neither you nor the United States do very well on that point.
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seneca 10/23/2009 7:44:00 PM
Nick from Victoria's rambling ravings are a sure sign of an unsophisticated mind. Your logic: we are supposed to let animals be tortured because there are starving babies in Africa? I don't follow your logic... This is the United States- we are responsible for what happens within our borders. Barbarism will not be tolerated. This is a first world country that is more educated in how it treats creatures that are completely at humans' mercy.
Since there are obviously morons on this site I'll break it down for you: Wolves didn't ask to be domesticated, humans made that choice for them (another clarification for the intellectually challenged: dogs are descendents of wolves that have been domesticated, as cats are descendents of the lion/tiger family). Dogs have been bred to be completely dependent upon humans. We took on that responsiblity. That is why a community polices how animals are treated. As Ghandi said, one can judge the civility of a nation by how its animals are treated. In other words, animals cannot look after themselves so how a completely helpless creature is treated says a lot about how civilized a country is. Comparing animal welfare agencies to helping children is the result of faulty logic. Children have parents who are charged with their care. Parents are responsible for feeding and protecting their offspring. And when they fail to do it the government steps in. That is what government policing agents are for: protecting those unable to protect themselves. Why someone would use the argument that there are children halfway across the world with problems to argue that it is okay to torture animals is beyond stupid .
And for those who cry racism: how utterly ridiculous. No one really takes those who toss out the race card seriously anymore. It has been waaaay overused. Dogfighting is taking place in minority communities. Instead of members of these communities rallying around these brutish thugs they ought to be looking inward and trying to see why this sort of disturbing behavior is being bred within their culture. Why is the torture of a helpless animal something that gives a number of members of their community such pleasure? They ought to be embarassed rather than circling the wagons. Oh well, it is always easier to claim victimhood, I guess.
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Nick 10/23/2009 9:58:00 AM
And the people who say "animal tormenters are the worst scum on the planet and deserve to die, etc. etc." are scary and likely also dangerous people. This sentiment is dangerous and extraordinarily stupid. What about child molesters and murderers, of.. PEOPLE? That is far far worse. Many many orders of magnitude worse. So much worse it cannot be put into words. Animals are not people, and killing an animal will not land you in "hell" as another dumb commenter suggests. This is politically-correct vegan stupid-speak. What about caring for starving babies? What about children sold into slavery? What about murderers? Killing an animal is not murder, it is slaughter. Animals are food or at best pets. They don't have "rights". In order to have rights you have to understand how not to infringe on others' rights, and so animals can never have any "rights". PETA and other crazy and largely criminal "animal rights" orginizations and the media make such a stink about these dog games, and it fills all the vapid moronic newscasts for months on end, but society couldn't give a CRAP about the 30,000 babies that starve to death every day worldwide. Society simply doesn't care. These "animal rights" hypocrites spend millions on TV to get even more millions using sad faced dogs and sad music, while women and children are being cut down like cattle and nobody gives a damn. Who cares about a few dogs when this is going on? Does it really merit months and months of endless saturated daily media coverage? Vick was wrong and he was charged. Thats it. Story over. Get over it. It was a couple of DOGS. Finally, PETA and these like morons neglect to tell you that millions of dogs, cats and cute little bunnies are ending up in the dinner pot around the world all the time. What do they do to help those animals? Nothing of course. But to admit that would undermine their multi-million dollar scam industry of raising money and spreading smugness and lies about veganism being "morally better" than eating meat, and how it will save the planet, and how you are a bad person if you eat a McChicken nugget. What about those starving babies? Nobody gives a DAMN! Let all those african babies starve, they aren't cool anyway, but for goodness sakes, don't let a dog die, and don't kill that roaster-chicken! That would be bad! Retards. So PETA and these so-called "animal rights" morons can go pound sand. Nobody wants animals tortured and killed in "fights" for sport, but keep it in perspective while you watch your brain-melting sitcoms and watch your liberal pablum socialist media and sip your latte and recoil in smug politically-correct horror at the thought of a McChicken because you "feel bad" for the chicken. Get a life. Go help starving children, or shut the f*** up.
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Nick 10/23/2009 7:05:00 AM
Dog fighting is sick and cruel. But you absolutely cannot "electrocute" dogs or any living thing with an arc welder. The whole point of arc welding is huge amperage (hundreds of amps) at a very low voltage, just like you cannot electrocute someone with a 12v car battery (unlike what many cheezy action movies may show). The voltage is too low to develop any meaningful current across the resistance of the body. Although it only takes 90-110 ma (milliamps) to stop someones heart, to generate that kind of current across the heart muscle you need around 90 volts or more to overcome the resistance of the body or the voltage drop is too great and no current passes. This applies to dogs also. A car battery is 12 volts and an arc welder is 8 - 40 volts typically. You cannot electrocute with that voltage. Period. Totally impossible. If the person disassembled the welder and by hand re-wound the transformer it would be possible to modify the welder to supply 90 volts, but it wouldnt be a welder any more. So that is highly unlikely, as a dog fighting meatheaded moron is not likely also an electrical engineer. I call bullshit. Makes good press tho.
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davidMc 10/23/2009 5:53:00 AM
wow, what anger. the jury was deadlocked which means there wasnt enough evidence to convict the men for dogfighting. were they just dog owners? i dont know but isnt that what the justice system is for?
i dislike the over reaction of people who think that dogfighting is the worst thing possible and that those who do it are scum. did they read the story? dog fighting has a long legal history and its quite likely that some of the posters are descendants of dog fighting fans.
but hear this. these are the same people who run to bigmac not realising how animals they eat are treated. of course they dont mind, because they are hypocrites. and dont tell me that there is a difference. a living thing is a living thing. dogs are no different to any other animal. its just that at this point in time some of us want to bestow human status on dogs.
but in several countries of the world, dogs are on the menu also, just like cows and chiken.
if you are not a vegetarian, shut the hell up.
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Sonia 10/22/2009 5:49:00 AM
Typical suspects, the usual, nothing surprising. Animal abusers are the most disgusting form of scum on the planet and they should all be tortured the same way they torture poor animals. The devil cant wait for these pieces of sh*t.
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selwyn marock 10/21/2009 12:43:00 PM
The reason these cops have only cracked 1 case in 3 years,in the dog-fighting fraternity,is the Miami-Dade cop-force spends much of its time pandering to the whims of Sara Pizzano
and Sean Gallagher of Animal-Control and gives them back up,terrorising innocent families and their family pets.
They would be doing a far better job going after dog-fighter's who generally are running illegal gambling,drugs etc.these scumbags are armed and dangerous probably why the cops prefer the soft targets.
smarock@yahoo.com
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Fayclis 10/21/2009 7:35:00 AM
Obviously it is the TWO legged animal that should be hooked up to that killing machine.
How did the "human" race get so sick?
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Rausky 10/21/2009 5:52:00 AM
I have no respect for those who abuse and exploit animals. The practice of animal fighting is a disgusting barbaric thing. It goes to show that people who like this so called sport are from the lowest strata of society, who have a low IQ and manners. Those who are found guilty should be given long prison sentences, and tortured the same way these poor animals were tortured, so they can feel what these poor animals feel. So what Vick is a great football player; but as a human being he's a low life and should have been sentenced to many years in prison and never allowed to play football.People like him don't deserve a second chance, as their victims didn't get second chances!!
